"I would like to play to the metal fans where its not possible right now. Especially being a girl." An Interview With DORO of WARLOCK

Oct 2010 (phone)

German vocalist & songwriter Doro Pesch found fame fronting Warlock in the 1980's. Line-up changes left her the only original member, which morphed into a solo career that would explore a range of metal styles over the ensuing decades. She would become known worldwide as the Queen of Heavy Metal, or just the Metal Queen. During the grunge era her albums had limited release in America. This would change with the release of Calling The Wild in 2000, which led to her first U.S. tour in a decade. In 2020 she became the first heavy metal artist to perform a drive-in concert during the Covid-19 lockdown. She is known for choosing not to get married or have a family, as she is totally committed to metal music & the metal community. As a woman in music she has also shied away from glamour & sexual self-exploitation, never posturing as a sex symbol but always putting the music first. She has gained much respect for this approach & called a pioneer for female metal fans & musicians.

For many years I was planning to write the biography of guitarist Al Pitrelli of Megadeth, Alice Cooper, Trans-Siberian Orchestra & many other outings, as I thought he had an interesting story worthy of being shared. That book project was retired incomplete, but parts I transformed into the first history of Danger Danger, as Al was an original member, published in 2019 as Drivin' Sideways: The Story Of The Band Danger Danger. In my research I did many interviews with musicians who had worked with him. Doro was one of these, so the focus of this interview is on Al's contribution to Calling The Wild. The hour long interview, edited down, would be broadcast as part of a bi-monthly interview podcast I had recently started. I actually had never heard of Doro before delving into Al's career. One thing that came out of my research was my introduction to countless musicians I might not have heard of otherwise, Danger Danger & Trans-Siberian Orchestra included. This interview mentions her visiting me where I worked. I thought this was just her being nice, but a few months later she came in just before we closed. Photo posted here. Ironically, I had stayed late, just talking to my boss. I didn't recognize her, but my boss was tapping me on the arm thinking it was her before she spoke, as he knew I had interviewed her. She was so very sweet & showed me a proof of her new DVD. Everyone who talks with her, so I've heard, has said how sincere & open & friendly she is, & you come away feeling like you had a bonding moment with a wonderful woman. Later she performed in Manhattan at the intimate Webster Hall for a few hundred. I waited in the front afterwards with many fans to greet her, but she went out the backdoor to much disappointment. The concert featured guitarist Chris Caffery guesting, Al's bandmate & who had recorded & toured with Doro, but it was a sad spectacle. When she announced him there was no applause, like they didn't know him or didn't care or didn't like him. Even trying to pump the audience, as he's known to do in Trans-Siberian Orchestra, got a feeble response. On the few songs he played things got worse. I was no more than 20 feet from center stage for the entire show. He may have had moniters, but not a thing came out of the speakers. For his credit he visually played his heart out even if nobody heard him, while it was obvious he knew something was wrong.

* * * * *

AJ: Not just has Al had a great career & is a great musician, but he's worked with all these great musicians, like yourself, & many of them don't have the credit I think they deserve.

DORO: That is very true & I'm so happy you thought to take care of him.

AJ: Part of my research includes looking at your album Calling The Wild. My work is about Al, but its also about your career in the context around that album. I just wanted to talk with you & get some questions answered that I haven't found in other interviews you've done.

DORO: Excellent. I'm all yours.

AJ: You don't know how appreciative I am to talk with you. Doro, I want to start by going back in time. I mean, before your band WARLOCK.

DORO: Oh, really back!

AJ: Yes, really back. Can you tell me about what inspired you to record a demo & become a singer?

DORO: Actually, my 1st inspiration I got from Little Richard & the single was "Lucille". I was like 3 yrs old. I could just barely handle the record player. I fell in love with this song. My parents got worried because their little girl just wanted to hear music & especially that song. That was the 1st time that I can remember that I was really hooked to music. That got me attracted to it for my whole life. When I grew up, like when I was 6, 7, 8 yrs old ALICE COOPER was pretty huge.

AJ: I love Alice. He's great.

DORO: Isn't he great? Now I've met Alice a couple of times & its been so great, because he was definitely one of my heroes in childhood. & glam rock with T REX & Marc Bolan I loved. I think the wish to become a singer was actually growing from a very early age, since I was 3.

AJ: Did you ever have a deliberate intention to become a musician, or did you think you'd do it as a hobby, or not at all?

DORO: I loved music so much & I played a little bit of piano, but I loved school & I wanted to become a graphic artist. Then I was working & somehow I thought something didn't feel right. I lost so much weight. Which for a girl sometimes, you know, its a compliment & guys say it looks good. But, I was getting less & less. Actually, I went to the doctor's & I went to a hospital & nobody knew what was wrong. Nothing was wrong, but maybe it was because I was a teenager or something, they said, & I should get a new job. In just half a year I was in the hospital again. I found out I had a really really terrible illness [note: tuberculosis] that almost killed me. For awhile I was in the hospital. When you're a teenager you want to go out & hang out, whatever, doing stuff. Then I thought if I ever made it out there alive I would do something with my life with music. 2 weeks after I left the hospital I had my 1st band. That band was called SNAKEBITE. We didn't even know that we were doing metal. I think we just did what we felt. Later on some fans came into our rehearsal & they asked, 'Are you guys a metal band?' We thought that sounded cool & said, 'I guess we are.' Within time things started [for the metal scene in Germany] & later on we realized we were a part of a big growing metal scene. It was very emotional. But, that was actually the reason why I started a band. Maybe if I hadn't been sick I wouldn't have, you know?

AJ: Maybe become a graphic artist or something?

DORO: Yes, I still love doing it & it comes in handy to do all the album covers, logos & posters.

AJ: You hinted on something I wanted to ask about. When you were with SNAKEBITE & then WARLOCK can you tell me what the German metal scene was at that time?

DORO: Of course, you know, we went to all the metal concerts & sometimes some bands came to Germany, especially the British New Wave Of Heavy Metal. It was very influential. I grew up with JUDAS PRIEST, SAXON, IRON MAIDEN, Ronnie James Dio, ACCEPT. My 1st concert was 1980 with WHITESNAKE. That was awesome. Then my 2nd concert was JUDAS PRIEST & ACCEPT. I was a big PRIEST fan. Actually, that was the last day of working in my normal job. You couldn't get any personal phone calls, but you smile at the boss &, you know, he was okay about it. I got a phone call. He said, 'I hope its important.' I said, 'It's very important.' My band manager said, 'Do you want to quit your job?' I asked why. He said, 'You guys can go on tour with your favorite band JUDAS PRIEST.' Then I went to my boss & told him we could go on tour with JUDAS PRIEST & he said, 'What is that?' He had no idea. Of course, he wasn't a metalhead. So, he said, 'Girl, you're crazy, but I wish you all the best & good luck & never come back here, okay?' I said I would definitely give it my all. That was kinda what the scene was like in Germany.

AJ: I've been reading a bio of Ritchie Blackmore & he talks about DEEP PURPLE with David Coverdale coming to Germany. He loved Germany & the Germans also loved the music.

DORO: Totally. I think Germany is definitely, even to this day, I think its a big metal & hard rock market. Because, usually everything is pretty serious in Germany. Actually, that was the reason I always wanted to go to America. In 1987 I went to America for a 3 day promotion tour. After the 2nd day I wanted to stay. Everyone said I couldn't do that, but I thought I would try. Then we did one of our most successful records in N.Y. at the Power Station Studio. Then I could stay. I'm a proud Green Card holder since 1991. I think eventually I want to become an American citizen.

AJ: Doro, my great-grandmother came from Germany.

DORO: What city is she from?

AJ: I don't know. She came to N.Y. in 1900 as a teenager. The story is that she didn't want to speak German & wanted to be an American. She had 10 kids & none of them learned German. American musicians often talk about the differences between American audiences & German or European audiences. As a European musician can you tell me the differences you see between the 2 groups? Is there a difference?

DORO: I think, maybe, little tiny differences. Actually, every city is different. When we tour every place is different. In Germany in the south they are maybe a little bit more outgoing & the north maybe a little bit cooler, but yet metal is in their heart. Metal is worldwide. I think its just little mentality things. Like in South America they have so much passion & fire in their blood. They're so wild. In the north, like in Norway, Finland & Sweden, they're as passionate, but they don't show it as much. Maybe they're a little bit, you know, serious, but they love it just as much. I feel it all. Of course, I love it wild & headbanging & stage diving, but when I feel that they're not so outgoing but they still love it, that's great, too. Every country is a little bit different. A different vibe. For example, what I just told you about the north of Germany, actually the people there are a little bit more serious & a little bit more dry, we would say, but they have the biggest metal festival with Wacken. That's like the wildest festival in the world. So, it all depends. I think people who are into metal & who are supporting metal, like the promoters who do great promotion with total heart & soul in it, that I can definitely feel. It means the people are happy. The people make all the difference. It doesn't matter which country you are in.

AJ: I'll tell you, I am not a journalist. I'm a fan. I'm a metal fan. It's about the music. It's great music. There's nothing else like it.

DORO: I think so, too. I think it definitely can bring people together. I think that's the true form when you want to make peace in the world. Music can have a big effect & a total healing effect. It definitely makes people happy or give them hope. A couple months ago we had a concert. Between songs somebody came up to me, there wasn't a barrier, & he said, "If I can just tell you something. I just want to tell you, I've survived only because of your music." I asked, "What way do you mean that?" He said, "I just got out of jail. 20 years in jail. I wouldn't have survived without the music." I didn't know what he did, but that touched me so much. He was just sitting in his cell listening to the music everyday & it gave him hope & positive energy to survive there. It was hell, but there was something to look forward to.

AJ: I've read interviews with you where people often call you an icon, or I think something I saw was a 'metal goddess.' What when someone gives you that title & they call you this icon, this woman role model, what's going through your head?

DORO: I'm much more like a shy & humble person, so when someone says that it's like do they mean me? I just want people to say something positive about me. Then I'm so happy. If they say I'm a metal queen, you know when its meant well its so nice. It means that you did something good for people. You gave them inspiration or motivation. It's a very nice feeling, but, like I said before, I'm a metalhead, too, & a total fan. I love music & I love people. If I feel I can make them happy, even for song or a concert or for just a couple of minutes I'm so grateful & so happy. So, if I have to be the metal queen at least its something nice.

AJ: Well, you definitely don't sound anything like the the leather wearing singer on stage. You sound much more humble & normal than in the image you put out there.

DORO: On stage its a different avenue. I'm a very warm person, but the stage gets the animal in me.

AJ: It's like Alice Cooper. There's Alice & then there's Vincent. We have Doro & then we have Dorothee.

DORO: Exactly. That's a good example. When I met Alice I thought he was such a polite gentleman & super nice. I remember when I was growing up, the snake & the make-up, that was cool. But, you could always sense he was a super nice person.

AJ: Speaking of Alice, its a good moment to ask you about Al Pitrelli, since he used to be Alice's guitarist. Let's talk about your album Calling The Wild. I know before then you hadn't released an album in America in awhile. You were doing all this music but you couldn't break into the American scene like you had wanted to. What was going through your head at the time, if you can remember?

DORO: I think we did really well in the '80's. That was great. Like '87 to '89. Then in the '90's when grunge took over it was so hard & especially in America. Every time I made a record the record company would say, "That isn't grunge." "No, it's not grunge, but I think it's beautiful. It has great songs." They said, "No, if its not grunge than we can't release it." It was record after record, then I peaked in 1999. Somehow people liked metal bands again & metal was kinda like coming back. We couldn't believe. I was doing this record in 1999. Then I talked to my friend in America & he said, "Can I do something?" I said, "Do whatever you feel is right. Do whatever in your heart you feel you can do." Within 2 weeks he had 4 record companies on the table. I thought no way. They said, "People are interested & metal is coming back a little bit." So, I went over to the record companies. The first one was Koch. I got in the door & they had a great guy working there & he loved the demos. The record wasn't done yet. He said, "Oh, man, it sounds great. We're just opening up a new metal department." That was my 1st record in years. Then we went on tour with Ronnie James Dio. From then on it was like metal was growing & it is here again. The 1980's were so great, but in the '90's all our heads were hanging low. It was definitely tough. People still did touring festivals. I think the 1st Wacken festival was in '90 & we played in '93. There was some metal around, but it was not as big.

AJ: It wasn't the same.

DORO: It was so hard for so long. I think the fans were still there, but the industry didn't support us. Yeah, that was the record that Al Pitrelli played on. He played 2 songs. In Germany we had a little studio in Dusseldorf. Actually, my home town. I co-owned a studio with another band from Dusseldorf [note: DIE KRUPPS], but they were more electronica. With our album we needed somebody who played brilliant guitar. Al plays meaningful, like powerful with high energy, & is a wonderful person. There are people who play on the records & they're good players, but they're strange & difficult. I definitely like people who like to have a good time or have a good vibe, & they put their good energy into the record. Al was so great. He was wonderful & so nice. I remember one very special thing about him. About that time my dad died. While we were recording I got some phone calls from my mom & she said that my dad was not doing well, & I should come home. Al said, "You should go. I'll do my best here. Just take care of your dad." He was so totally understanding & sympathizing. He was definitely feeling for me. It was so so nice. He made me feel so good & gave me big hugs. That is one thing I remember about Al. It totally blew my mind & he was so helpful for me at the time.

AJ: Did you know his music before? How did you find him?

DORO: I remembered him from SAVATAGE & I met them there. I still love to go to concerts & I went to a concert. I don't even know where it was, but I saw them in concert. Al played so great & he looked so great up on stage. He was totally putting his heart & soul into his playing & performance. I thought I would love to get in touch. Then a couple of years later we had this record & I got his number & asked him if he'd play. He said sure. He came to the studio. It was fantastic all the way.

AJ: When did you do this? Was this 1999? I know the record came out here in 2000.

DORO: Actually, the whole record we recorded in one & a half years. I did it all over the world, like in Hamburg, then N.Y.C., then Germany.

AJ: I was looking at this thinking that Al was in MEGADETH in 2000.

DORO: He made it just before.

AJ: I thought so, too. I have a quote about your song "I Give My Blood (Dedication)". This is from a fan I found online. They said: ""Dedication" is the hardest, loudest & fastest stuff Doro has ever released."

DORO: The song "Dedication"? That's so great.

AJ: I found many reviews of this album that said this is a great song. Just a really really great song.

DORO: That's so nice to hear. Why do I not read these nice things? I always loved that song. I think I want to put it in our setlist again. There's so many records. Its so hard to pick & choose, but this one. Yeah, I will put it in.

AJ: What inspired it?

DORO: Actually, the chorus is like for peace & freedom. I dedicate my life to do something positive. I will give my blood to do something good & fight for peace & freedom. That's the message of the song. But, I don't want to call it 'Hope & Freedom.' That sounds much too corny.

AJ: 'I Give My Blood' sounds very metal, too.

DORO: Yes. Sometimes you have to make it sound cool.

AJ: You have a couple other guests on this album. Lemmy, Bruce Kulick, Slash. You have some great folks here. Ironically, I work in a record store here on St. Mark's Place.

DORO: St. Mark's Place! I always go to Trash & Vaudeville clothing store down the block every time I'm in Manhattan.

AJ: I work on the other end of the block at a place called Rockit Scientist Records [note: it closed a year after this interview]. You have to stop by next time you're on the block.

DORO: That would be great. I'm always in New York City. I lived in Manhattan, but now I live in Long Beach. I'm always there when we're not on tour, but we're on tour through the end of the year & next year.

AJ: I work with a guy in the record store, Joey Barbosa, who used to play rhythm guitar with Bruce Kulick in a band, but before Bruce played with KISS. They were in the ANDREA TRUE CONNECTION together, the disco band. You have all these great guitar players you've worked with, & there's others over the years, so how do you decide who's going to play on what song?

DORO: Intuition & by feel. Actually, the songs we did with Lemmy we did in L.A.. It was so cool. We had Bob Kulick there & he played all the guitars, with Joe Taylor. Eric Singer was on drums. Lemmy played guitar, too. It was so great to have him play some guitars & he played a distorted bass solo. It was killer. My dad died on that production. I was totally devasted. Before that, I remember I sent Lemmy a letter through the management. I was in Europe & saw him on MTV, so I wrote him, "Lemmy, it's Doro, I don't know if you remember me, but we're now label mates." There's a photo of Lemmy & me on one of the MOTORHEAD records. I put the photo in & sent the letter. I never expected to hear a thing. Then my dad died & one day later I had to go with my mom to pick up some black clothes. I was totally devastated. I thought I wanted to die myself. I got a phone call & I didn't want to pick it up. But, then I thought, 'Let me see who this is.' It was an L.A. number. I thought it was strange. I picked up the phone & it was Lemmy. I let him know what happened, then I said, "I don't even know if I still want to do something." He said, "You sound so so sad. Let's do something. I think that will bring back good energy to you & maybe you forget a little bit about the heaviness of the situation." I said, "I don't know." He said, "No, come on over to L.A. & let's do something nice." So, I went over to L.A. a couple of weeks later. He was actually an angel to me. He was so nice & we had the greatest time. It was 2 weeks in the studio with Eric, Bob & Joe. It was awesome & a great time, even though I was sad. In my heart I was really hurting, but life could go on.

AJ: Doing your art is a good outlet.

DORO: Totally, totally. I also had so many fans who said something nice & were really looking forward to the next record. I realized some other people have much heavier lives. In a time of tragedy, I thought, I'm really sad, but I have to go on to do something good & give other people hope. So, that was definitely a tough time, but on the other hand, feeling the love from Al & Lemmy & all the people that worked in the studio, there was so much gentle & good energy. It was so great. It was really hardcore. It was awesome & I think the record came out fairly nice, too.

AJ: Its a great record. I have the American version, cause I know its different than the European one. There was another thing you did. You were the co-producer.

DORO: Always. For like 10 yrs. Maybe, Aaron, I didn't understand the question.

AJ: I thought this was your first producing credit?

DORO: Actually, I was always involved, but not putting my name as producer.

AJ: Ok.

DORO: Then the record company couldn't say their producer or something. Usually I always did it on some level.

AJ: So you've always been involved on that end, then?

DORO: Yes, but on Calling The Wild that was actually the first one that was for real. Usually, I'm a good team player. Whoever has a good handle on the song. If somebody has more to offer that I can imagine, that's cool. I produce all the stuff.

AJ: They gave you the spotlight this time.

DORO: Yeah, yeah. I didn't even remember it was on the record. I don't care about that stuff. I just want the fans to be happy & say, 'There's a great song that means something to me.' Then I take the spotlight. But, everything else, I don't even know what credits are on the albums.

AJ: I've read that you had a very successful tour with DIO after. With this album you got back on the American market just as metal was coming back to the mainstream. How has your career been here in America since then, compared to what it was before or during grunge?

DORO: Actually, during the last 10 years its doing pretty well. I think its getting better & better. Its maybe not as big as it was in the '80's, like '87 to '89 when 'All We Are' had heavy rotation on MTV. I guess that won't happen anymore.

AJ: No, not anymore.

DORO: We're still working on it & I think its doing really good. I'm happy that I still have the same band members from Calling The Wild. Bassist Nick Douglas has been with us now for 21 years. Johnny Dee, our drummer, has been with us since 1993. We're still a good team. Now, the world is so much bigger. Tomorrow I go to Russia with them & last week we were just in Japan. Before we were in China, Bulgaria, Czech Republic & all these places that were nearly impossible to tour in the '80's. Now its possible & that's great. Touring gets at least a year after each album. We're still working on it. It's not as big as it was, but I'm pretty happy. I will say it, all the traveling back & forth, I love the States. I love America. Actually, I did my best records in America. Its definitely where I want to live & work & grow old, though usually I'm in the tour bus.

AJ: Is there anything you've not done musically that you want to do?

DORO: Actually, I would like to play to the metal fans where its not possible right now. Especially being a girl, its difficult in some countries. You know, metal is even forbidden. For a woman to sing or like scream its very difficult. So, I would hope I would go to countries where its not possible now, but I will try. I always like to play where its risky. Now we have been to China a couple of times. It felt impossible, but now it almost feels like home. So, I hope, in countries like Iran & Iraq, where I know there are many many metalheads & metal fans. For a woman its impossible. Its very difficult to be able to go there & play for people there who would love it. For the rest of my life I don't have any other wishes. You know, I'm dedicated to metal or married to metal & the fans. So, whatever it takes to make great shows & great records & great tours. Actually, one of my dreams came true to write a music score for a great movie. The 1st movie was called Anuk - The Path Of The Warrior. Now they are planning a second part. I'm playing the main female role in it & writing the music for it, again. That was always a dream. Its like an independent film. Not Hollywood, not glossy, but its very cool. It actually won an award in the New York Film Festival.

AJ: Your manager told me that you have a new DVD/CD boxset out [25 Years In Rock ... & Still Going Strong].

DORO: It's coming out. There was a 25th anniversary celebration with great friends. Everybody was there from the metal scene who did something for us or who we toured with or were friends with. The SCORPIONS came to celebrate. Bobby Blitz of OVERKILL. Warrel Dane of NEVERMORE. All the best ladies of metal were there. My old WARLOCK band members were there. It was the longest concert we ever did, like over 3 hours. It's a nice DVD, with all the highlights of last year's tour. I think its a killer DVD. Some beautiful artwork.

AJ: Do you have any plans to tour in America? When will you be back this way, Doro?

DORO: I just finished a tour like 2 weeks ago.

AJ: I know. I found out after the fact. I would have loved to have seen you in person.

DORO: You didn't see a show?

AJ: No. I didn't know you were here until after the fact.

DORO: That's ashame. Through the end of this year we do a tour of Europe. We tour with MOTORHEAD. I'm so happy to do a tour together. Next year we are coming back to America.

AJ: I'll keep my eyes open this time. Doro, I have nothing more to ask you. You have been a delight to talk to.

DORO: It was so nice to get to know you & talk to you. I would love to visit you in the record store.

AJ: Its a little little store. We sell mostly vinyl these days.

DORO: Aaron, this DVD is coming out on vinyl, cause I did a live record as well. It will come out as vinyl as a picture disc.

AJ: We sell a lot of that. We're actually expanding our metal section, cause metal fans still buy & don't download. The metal community, we're a very supportive community.

DORO: Totally. That's the reason I could always do it. It was always the metalheads. They were always there for me. I know what you mean. I always try to create something that looks expensive & is worthwhile to buy & that they want to buy. Aaron, when you see the DVD you'll love it. I think its one of the best things we have done. Its not out yet, just some youtube trailers.

AJ: That's such a great resource to hear & discover so much music.

DORO: In countries where its illegal to listen to metal or to start a metal band, they can still listen to it through youtube. I love that. Like we just played in Turkey. So many people they came over from Iran & Iraq. They put their lives on the line to be at this festival & to see the bands. It was awesome. That would be the biggest dream if we could come to their country. I would love it, but it's very tricky.

AJ: Maybe someday. The world is changing.

DORO: Hopefully. But, I tell you, they were exactly the same metalheads, like you & me. At first I didn't know where they were from. They looked metal. They had the metal t-shirts. Then we talked & found out. It was great to see them.

AJ: Doro, its a delight talking to you. Thank you for talking time out of your schedule to talk about the past with me.

DORO: It was actually perfect. Between Japan & Russia I just have a couple of days in Germany.

AJ: I'm going to let you go now. I'm sure you have plenty to do.

DORO: Just pack for Russia. Its so cold there. I have to see what kind of stuff I have.

AJ: The fun never ends.

DORO: Never. It could be 24 hours of metal & that still wouldn't be enough. The fans in Russia are great. The last couple of years they became very open & kinda westernized. At first it was strange. Everybody with machine guns. Now its pretty normal & fun to go there.

AJ: How long are you in Russia for?

DORO: One week.

AJ: Are you moving constantly or do you have any time to be a tourist?

DORO: Not so much. In Japan I was so sick. We had a couple of days, but I had a fever & had to stay in the hotel to get prepared for the show. In the end it always works. When you have to do it, it works, but sometimes its painful.

"We Actually Were Up There With Clapton" An Interview With ANTHONY J. FOTI of CLOSENUF & ERIC BLACKWOOD of EDISON'S CHILDREN

Oct 2010 (phone interview broadcast live on Roman Midnight Music Podcast Eps #5)

Blackwood & Foti was a N.Y.C. band fronted by songwriters Eric Blackwood & Anthony Foti, who also played guitar & sang with a group of backing musicians. They released one CD & got some national recognition before going their separate musical ways. Foti would release a solo EP & then form Closenuf. Closenuf is a regular feature of N.Y.C. clubs doing covers & Foti originals & have released numerous CD's of original songs. Blackwood would form the Eric Blackwood Band, before putting more focus on career working behind the scenes in the movie & tv industry. He would also research & write a book with his wife on 500 baseball stadiums in America. He return to actively creating new music in 2010 with the sci-fi prog-rock outing Edison's Children, whose debut was a 72 minute almost mystical concept album. This is a duo with Pete Trewavas, the bassist of prog torch bearers Marillion of which Blackwood has been an honorary member of the touring crew since 2005. Blackwood is also the brother of Vincent Pastore, famed for his ill-fated character Big Pussy on TV's The Sopranos.

I first heard of Blackwood & Foti while researching the career of guitarist Al Pitrelli who guested on their album. These unknown bands became my favorite discoveries, versus his better known music with Alice Cooper, Megadeth & Tran-Siberian Orchestra. I contacted Foti wanting to know more about working with Pitrelli & so enjoyed the telephone conversation on the music business that I decided he would be my first guest on the podcast I had just created of music reviews & commentary. Playing with Pitrelli was almost the least interesting thing he had to share in an conversational buzz that was like a father giving advice to a son, with maybe a few secret stock market hints thrown in for good measure. Given I had never done a live interview I never expected that the hour long interview would become so popular that I'd convert my show within a couple months to only interviews & end up talking to folks like Sophie B. Hawkins & Rainbow's Graham Bonnett. I had only limited communication with Blackwood, but both Foti & I reached out letting him know the interview was happening & to feel free to call him. Neither of us expected to hear from him, given his busy schedule.

* * * * *

AJ: welcome to my show, Anthony. You're my 1st guest & it's just an honor to have you.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it so much. It'll be a lot of fun.

AJ: Before we get too far I want to discuss a particular song, which is the basis of how we met. I'm a fan of & have been researching the life of guitarist Al Pitrelli of TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, MEGADETH, ASIA, played with Alice Cooper, Dee Snider & countless others. In my quest to get all his music I came across your recordings with him. We've talked about that experience & I enjoyed so much of what you said about music in general that I wanted to expand our conversation & introduce you to my audience. So, starting from where you & I met seems to be a good jumping off point. The song in question is "At Night" & its a favorite of mine of your work. It's from your 1st album under the name of BLACKWOOD & FOTI, the album is Haunted Memories. This features one of the best, I would say, maybe top 10 guitar solos by Al. Anthony, will you tell me a little bit about "At Night"?

ANTHONY: Sure. This is actually from the debut album of my label Wreckords Records. I was in a progressive acoustic band called BLACKWOOD & FOTI. Aaron, you're the captain of 6 degrees of separation, so you will appreciate this. What happened was my relative is in the ARROGANCE, which is a band from the '60's. Eventually they wanted to put all their material on CD. They got a producer named Dave Greenberg who worked with Van Morrison.

AJ: What's Dave doing now? I know he's working with some big names?

ANTHONY: He shifted a little bit from rock'n'roll & he's doing work with Method Man & Redman & some of the big hip hop acts now. Back then, he co-owned a production company with Al Greenwood from FOREIGNER.

AJ: Isn't he one of the founding members? He was the keyboardist, right?

ANTHONY: He's the one in "Cold As Ice" when you hear those slamming keyboards at the beginning. You can't miss him. So, I brought the band in. The funny thing was we were between guitarists & we also had a drummer who couldn't play with a click track at the time. So, the producer said, "Don't worry. We'll bring some ringers in for you & we'll make this project really worth our while." They brought in Vinnie Conigliaro who's played with everybody from like Joe Satriani, Joe Lynn Turner, Meat Loaf, etc. to be our drummer for this tune.

AJ: Joe Lynn Turner, who sang in RAINBOW for those that might not immediately know the name.

ANTHONY: Right. & Al Pitrelli was brought in.

AJ: When Al worked with you he'd already been working with Dee Snider in WIDOWMAKER & Alice Cooper & the new line-up of ASIA.

ANTHONY: Right. 1st the name eluded me. Then he comes in. Here's this skinny guy with long hair sitting on a stool. He played his guitar almost like a classical guitar with the neck up in the air. Put on the headphones & we had him do 4 numbers on the album, working on solos, intros & outros. But, he really took a shine to this song. He said it was the best song on the album. I think just because he just had the most fun with it. We really wrote it as a pop tune with with a hook to try to get, you know, to try to pierce the corporate veil & get some radio airplay. It's Al at his best & it was really a highlight for the band to be able to actually produce something that a lot of people have noticed. It's not just Al. It was just a the meeting of the minds & the hearts & the souls at the time. It's a song about ... well, I picture the video someday with a man who wakes up in the middle of the night & his woman is not next to him & he feels around. He winds up putting on his coat & goes out in the pouring rain & he follows her to see what's going on. It's just this bump in the road that makes a very spooky rock tune. I always had Rick Derringer & people like that in mind when I wrote it & I thought it was just a cool tune. I hope everybody enjoys it.

AJ: How much did you instruct Al & Vinny or how much freedom did you give them?

ANTHONY: Well, the drummer more. We had a structure & drum pattern there to to guide him as a bed track, but the guitar work, no. We had the progression, of course, with the acoustic, but we gave free reign. It was funny because Al would just do a couple of takes & then he would just nod his head & they would let the tape fly. Most of "At Night" is just off the cuff, because he just felt it. Sometimes you can't re-record when you have that magic. You let it go. You captured it & it's in. We were looking through the glass & we were like whoa. It really gives you that feeling that you wrote something that someone is able to embellish upon & then you say to yourself 'Okay. this is more than just a rock tune or a pop tune. This is something that has some substance & some art to it.'

AJ: Let's make a note here that down the road this particular song would get some recognition?

ANTHONY: Yes.

AJ: We've got to mention the recognition, as I think it just caps the story of the song.

ANTHONY: Absolutely. Years later I wound up starting a band called CLOSENUF. It was 2001. Al recorded with us for BLACKWOOD & FOTI in 1994. We re-recorded the song, because we wanted to have everything on the new album played by us. I brought this song as part of my repertoire to the new band & the guitarist turned in a really respectful version of what Al did. He knew he had to be his own man, but he also saw how Al guided the song. So, we re-recorded it & we had a fresh version. A little more pumping. We extended the drums in the middle. Our promoter out in Rhode Island wound up getting this version on the Grammy ballot for Best Pop Performance by a duo or group in 2010. So, you know, the whole thing is that the song itself from a writing & performing standpoint has had serious recognition, but we also know that Al & Vinnie & Dave & Al Greenwood, etc., they gave us the ingredients that made the cake that eventually got us the recognition. Both versions are on our current album in our 15th anniversary of the record label for compare & contrast & it's a lot of fun.

AJ: It's such a great song & knowing all that story behind it just makes it more interesting. Before going on to the next topic, I actually have a caller on the line. I don't know who this is. Hello, caller, are you there?

ERIC: I am here.

AJ: Who are we talking to?

ANTHONY: I know who this is.

ERIC: This is Anthony Foti's haunted memory.

ANTHONY: I know who this is. This is Eric Pastore Blackwood of BLACKWOOD & FOTI.

AJ: Eric, welcome to my show.

ERIC: Aaron, how ya doing?

ANTHONY: Wow, man, I have not spoken to Eric other than e-mails in, what is it, 10 years? More?

ERIC: I think it may even be more than that. 15 maybe.

ANTHONY: Wow, this is a BLACKWOOD & FOTI reunion.

ERIC: They said it would never happen.

AJ: Since I have both of you on the phone you can both answer. Let's talk about BLACKWOOD & FOTI. Bring me back in time. How did you guys meet up? Where did you start? Either one of you. Eric, go ahead.

ANTHONY: Actually, Eric, how did we meet?

ERIC: You know, that's a good question. You were my insurance agent.

ANTHONY: That's it! That's right, I was selling insurance. I sold him an automobile policy. I dropped out of law school to continue my musical career. I picked up a property & casualty license to make some money. Eric came in & it turned out he was a singer/songwriter & so was I. He lived on Staten Island. I worked on Staten Island. Eric's influences & his writing style were really what I was looking for it at the time. It was this progressive stuff that had an acoustic guitar & we had a real abject respect for Dan Fogelberg, John Denver, Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, Harry Chapin, Van Morrison & Billy Joel & all the people who were crafting stuff. We liked longer songs & interesting songs like GOLDEN EARRING & you liked MARILLION, & PINK FLOYD & KANSAS & RUSH. It was really what we were looking for. We got some buddies together & we started the act. It was very eclectic. We worked like crazy.

ERIC: Yeah, we would do 6 gigs a week. We were busy.

ANTHONY: I have to owe a lot to it. We had some falling outs & we had more drummers than SPINAL TAP, including this 400 pound Hell's Angel guy.

ERIC: I forgot about him.

ANTHONY: I thought he was gonna break the drums every time he played. So, we lost a few members & we started going through some changes & that's why it started falling apart. Now, Eric is actually doing special effects work for movies. His 2 brothers are actors, so he went into the Hollywood type side of the business & I stayed in music. But, the BLACKWOOD & FOTI, the whole thing about it was it was crafting. Even my current album has 4 songs that are co-written by Eric that have always been in my repertoire that people have always really enjoyed. It also made us start the record label & it made us get serious about creating a NY state S Corp, joining ASCAP, following the music, dealing with entertainment attorneys, releasing singles around the country, reproducing & designing album art. All that started because of the of the organization & the business aspect that Eric & I took together. I mean, the 25 years I've been doing it & the 15 years of the label, I owe a lot to Eric. It wasn't just 'We're gonna get girls & young people want to score pot.' It has nothing to do with that. It was business. It was fun. It was creative. It was artistic. But, there was business. It still stands today. Even the current guys in CLOSENUF, which is the spawn of BLACKWOOD & FOTI at this point, they know it. They know that the business is just as important as the art.

AJ: You know, the music & performing is really just half of it. The other half is business. I think a lot of bands fall apart because they're not paying attention to the business.

ANTHONY: Right.

ERIC: Absolutely.

AJ: I've been in bands because the guys thought success was found in the rehearsal room only & the business would happen by itself. You make both a good point & a bad point, Anthony. Eric, since I have you joining us, unexpectedly, are you still doing music? I know your movie work takes up a lot of time, but are you still playing?

ERIC: Yes. I'm in the middle of doing an album with some of my biggest heroes that I grew up listening to. I'm going to be putting on a new album soon. My music career has done pretty well. After BLACKWOOD & FOTI broke up I continued a little bit longer as the ERIC BLACKWOOD BAND with all the same songs. After that we went a little bit alternative rock for 7 years with the lead guitarist we had at the end of BLACKWOOD & FOTI. He became the lead singer & he drove the band for several years. After that I started writing music for movies & got further involved in the movie business because my brothers are in it, as Anthony eluded to. Now I've been mostly doing special effects for TV & motion pictures, but the music is still a part of me. Because of how busy the business I kind of got out of it, but I'm getting back into it again more so now in the last 5 years.

AJ: Obviously you heard the beginning with Anthony talking about the album & "At Night." When you're hearing that song again & going back, what's running through your head, Eric? What's your thoughts on this past life?

ERIC: I'll tell you, one of the things, listening to it after not hearing it for a while, it really still sounds pretty damn good. I mean, the work we did together really still shines. I think it still stands up pretty nicely. You know the work that Al Pitrelli did & all the work that Greenberg did in getting us all the players that would come in & perform with us, it was actually kind of a magical thing the way it all kind of just unfolded. It's a shame that it all the issues wound up coming up that didn't allow us to take it any further & it ended when it did. But, it was still quite a quite a magical experience.

AJ: There's a little history on you guys, if one of you could fill me in, about bringing your demo to to Greenberg & Greenwood.

ANTHONY: Well, Eric had a 4 track in his house & we would record basically acoustic guitars, vocals & some effects to fill in where the percussion was lacking. Here we are in the days of the cassette. I remember them because they were these dark clear looking cassettes like Coke bottle color. But, when we presented it to Green Machine Productions they wouldn't just take it. That was the whole thing. We gave them these 4 songs & said this is what we are on our own without 24 track, digital or even the big analog tapes. Sure, you pay them by the hour & you know they want to put their name on something. They don't want to get frustrated in the middle of the project, that it's going to be something that's not going to be completed. They don't want complete amateurs that they have to hand hold. When we gave it to them they were like, 'Sure we'll record your album.' That's where we got the product that we got. I mean, you know you could always say that you have great art, but yet you have to get let every pinball hit every bumper appropriately to get the right score.

ERIC: Right.

AJ: Let's let's talk about that for a second, since I have here with me 2 songwriters & I know you both probably have different approaches to songwriting & composing. I want to ask both of you what's your approach to
writing & maybe how coming together, you know, affected that or didn't or whatever.

ANTHONY: Well, I'm a composer second & a songwriter 1st, so what happens to me is I get the poem & the vocal patterns, etc. So, a lot of the stuff that I would approach to my current band CLOSENUF, as well as BLACKWOOD & FOTI, or even with my other songwriting partners over the years, I would sing the song & find the progression behind it. But, the other thing about Eric was that he would come up with chord progressions & instrumental pieces that it was my job to to write a vocal pattern on top of. That was where I got the more well-roundedness of being able to hit it from both angles.

ERIC: I think too, I came from a more progressive background. As Anthony said, I'm more of a MARLLION & PINK FLOYD kind of influence. I come from like the deep dark recesses of music. I like the real intense stuff. Anthony is more from the inspirational side, things like Billy Joel & John Denver. Even though we always had like plenty of middle ground we could share, like Dan Fogelberg who we both believe truly is one of the greatest musicians on earth, I think one of the great things is that Anthony ... I was so dark that Anthony would bring me up. At the same time Anthony was bright & I would bring him down a little bit to my end. What would happen, I think, is that between the 2 of us we were able to kind of create this middle ground that both the him & I could meet at. He kind of needed me to bring him down & I needed him to bring me kind of up. That kinda helped a lot in terms of how the songwriting went. I think that's why some of the songs were so was so different from anything that either of us would have normally written without each other at the time.

ANTHONY: Right, right. It's funny, because Blackwood is a stage name & it means darkness & Foti actually is Italian for brightness. It was kind of funny, because when we made the CD itself we cut the CD in half & had it half black & half white in its design. I think it was so great & I'd show it to a friend of mine & be told the CD looks like one of those black & white cookies you get at the Italian bakery. Yes, I have a thousand black & white cookies in my basement.

AJ: I know together you formed Wreckord Records & Anthony now keeps it going. Can you tell me about the formation of that &, obviously, some of the background to this business?

ANTHONY: It was actually Eric's idea that we needed the label. I happened to know a nice attorney who cut us a nice deal. We needed a name. It was funny, because we made it Wreckords Records, but the 1st word is spelled like a train wreck. The actual symbol is a W, which is actually a record that's broke it in half. When you put the 2 halves next to each other it makes the arcs of the W. We ran it together & everything was 50/50. When we went our separate ways I continued the corp. Eric's publishing for the few numbers we did are still owned by the corp. It's all on the books. You need that stuff on the books. That's the fair & equitable way to be. Even with a couple of other songwriting partners that I have. I can't find them all the time, but when they have money owed it's been set aside for when it can be claimed. You have to think of it that way. The other idea is, & we know this because here we are men & not little kids, our music is primarily for & with respect for white people pretty much 35 to 55 with with a more male oriented audience. The people who look for 38 SPECIAL & LYNYRD SKYNYRD, who come around & see all the reunion tours. You can't say we're gonna sell out, you know, a 1000 seating arenas every night & all that type of stuff, but here we are with a bunch of people who still buy CDs & don't download. Who have disposable income. The idea is that I would want an investor, an angel, like a Broadway play, to put up the money to forward CLOSENUF &show the world what we are. If we make it, it's all profit. If we lose we're a tax write-off. But, that what you're looking. You're looking for that angel to invest in you. I mean, look at "The Macarena." That is the highest selling single on the earth. The funny thing is, when they saw those 2 65 yr old Spanish men on TV people were taken aback, but it didn't take it away from being the highest single ever sold on the earth. So the thing is, here we are mature gentlemen & as long as the music is on the radio, that they would turn around & say 'Okay, now let's see what these guys look like.' When they finally see what they look like & they see they're men, they're not boys, but the song is still awesome. That's where the industry has gone totally awry. Bands like MOUNTAIN & JETHRO TULL, I don't know if they could make it these days.

ERIC: No, they wouldn't.

ANTHONY: It's not the music, its because they're not pretty boys.

AJ: It's all visual.

ANTHONY: Right, I mean you see a beautiful sculpture in the middle of a park & you see an 80 yr old man come out of his basement who made this thing & you would still say 'My god, that's a beautiful statue.' You don't turn around & look at the man who's lived his entire life who isn't a sex symbol & say to yourself that that statue is now ugly. No. That high art is still high art & music has to go back to that. That's why we're here. That's why I'm still here. It's the album & then it's the reproduction of the album in a live show that has to be awesome.

AJ: Absolutely.

ANTHONY: Sex, drugs & rock'n' roll, I mean, maybe the subject matter of the songs, etc., I mean, bottom line is it's rock'n'roll. There's nothing else occurring on that stage except there's theatrics, but there's music. Audio & visual of music.

AJ: It's actually a very simple equation on one level. Before we talk anymore I have to thank Eric. I have to thank you for calling up.

ERIC: No problem.

AJ: We were talking over the past week. This was totally unexpected. I know how busy you are. Can you reveal openly what movie you're working on? If you can't, it's okay.

ERIC: I can. Right now I'm working on a quirky movie called Violet & Daisy.

AJ: Whose in it?

ERIC: It stars James Gandolfini from The Sopranos on TV. He's the main actor in it. I just finished doing Boardwalk Empire.

AJ: I can't thank you enough for being a part of this. Having both of you guys here is a treat given your respective schedules. I want to talk about another song that you both had a hand in recording & creating. This got re-recorded by CLOSENUF, but because I have you with us, Eric, I want to look at the version you to do. I'm talking about "In The Eyes Of The Rose." Anthony, I know this has some special things related to it.

ANTHONY: This is a song about the thoughts of a 16th century philosopher who said that a rose sees a gardener as an immortal creature. The thing is he's just a man. The idea is that since the rose is misrepresenting the gardener, in the song the man in the relationship who's symbolizing the rose as their love is in a misrepresented relationship. The funny thing is, we did this live at Wagner College on a great lawn as a concert in the park for some politicians. Everybody in the audience was flabbergasted, because it was this  heart-wrenching ballad. Well, we ran out of money for the album. My father came up & said he'd put up the money & he became the co-producer. Frederick D. Foti, my father. We recorded it with John Abbott, who was with Dionne Warwick, & Steve Jerome, who actually just passed away a couple of months ago. John Abbott died a few years ago. Jerome has done everything from SIMON & GARFUNKEL to Gloria Gaynor, Neil Diamond, everybody. They recorded this song for us. It was a power ballad & it became our 1st nationally played single. It's still something that's in my repertoire all the time. I've done festivals all over NYC & people will request the song. So, it's something very special.

AJ: Who played what on that song?

ANTHONY: No actual special guest stars. "In The Eyes Of The Rose" is a capture of the ensemble that was the BLACKWOOD & FOTI live band. I was lead vocals & Eric was doing acoustic guitar. It was actually the live band that performed the song everywhere around New England. This was the band which we captured live in the studio.

ERIC: I think one thing should be noted, too. Anthony pushed this song quite a bit. I'll tell you, this song just exploded down south. This got on every radio station from Texas to Atlanta. I mean, they were playing this thing probably 8 or 9 times a day. We were on the Gavin report for most played song. We actually were up there with Eric Clapton for most played song down in Atlanta. It was also El Paso, too. There were 2 radio stations trying to outdo each other for who could play this song the most times in a day, it seemed like. So, this song really got huge. It turned into a monster fast, faster than we ever expected it to.

AJ: Excellent. I think this song compared to "At Night" creates a nice contrast showing 2 sides to the BLACKWOOD & FOTI sound. I think it really shows the breadth of your repertoire & what you were about.

ANTHONY: Thank you.

ERIC: Thank you. Speaking of "At Last". The one thing I can say about Al Pitrelli was that not only was he brilliant, but he was just effortless. I remember with " The Old Man", which has a 2 minute guitar solo outro on it, we recorded it once. He fiddled around on his guitar. The 2nd time around he laid down the track. He'd only heard the song once & he fiddled around on his guitar while it was playing. He said "Alight, let's just give it a shot." Greenberg hit record & Pitrelli put that lead as it sounds. We were sitting there with out mouths open. We could not believe how incredible a guitarist he was, that he was able to come out with something that amazing on the 1st take without ever having heard the song but once. He was just brilliant. Pitrelli looked at us & said "I think I've got it. We can do it over." We're like 'You're not doing it over! That was it. That was the track. You can't get better than what you just did.' We told him to leave it alone as it was absolutely perfect. He was such just a professional. So, that being said, Anthony, thanks for keeping it alive.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it. Very very nice talking to you again.

ERIC: Thank you, take care.

AJ: Eric, thank you so much.

ERIC: Thank you, Aaron.

AJ: That was a surprise for all of us.

ANTHONY: Absolutely.

AJ: I want to make sure we touch on CLOSENUF before we end our talk. You've been fronting the group for quite a while now & put out a couple albums & gotten some awards. Let's talk about what you've done & what you're doing with CLOSENUF.

ANTHONY: CLOSENUF was actually originally a Adam Vicelich & myself, 2 singer/songwriters. We met up with a bunch of people answering ads & we all were going to meet on Sept 12th, 2001 & on Sept 11th, 2001, we all know what happened. So we're waiting at the diner & we're saying to ourselves, 'I don't know if the bass player & the guitarist & a drummer are going to show up.' Well, little by little everybody showed up in a lobby. We we spoke about how it touched us & we sat down & we spoke about what we wanted to do. We explained what the project was & we brought our repertoires together & our experiences. It was funny, because we needed a name & every time we would do a song Adam would go 'Yeah, close enough.' Then we'd play another song. We'd finished the song, boom big triumphant ending & he'd go 'Close enough.' We would move on to the next one & it stuck. So, we said that was great from a marketing point of view. I mean, closenuf to musical perfection, closenuf to your heart, closenuf to the radio, closenuf, to television. We had "Music Man" very very much on the forefront with BLACKWOOD & FOTI, a Billboard songwriting contest award winning work that is an homage to the music industry. It's just a lot of fun. It's my 60's influence at its best. We did the new version of it with CLOSENUF where every member of the band is playing every note as opposed to guest stars. I did have a version produced by Steve Jerome & John Abbott with Screamin' Steve Barlotta from Gary U.S. Bonds doing the sax work. When we did a version that was more rocking we actually had BLUE OYSTER CULT's soundman be our producer for these 2 albums. He took the song to a major level. We released it to a promoter in Rhode Island & the guy got us to the Grammy ballot for Best Musical Instrumental Arrangement Accompanying Vocalist. This started the 1st of many times up on the ballot for CLOSENUF.

AJ: What is going on with the band right now?

ANTHONY: I have a new line-up. I go through different keyboardists & guitarists. I plan to revamp the live show for 2011 getting that 60's/70's rock vibe out there. But, I keep promoting. I'm putting some old music videos up on youtube. We always stay in it from a promotional point of view even when we're not actively performing.

AJ: The 1st time I heard the 1st CLOSENUF album it just blew my mind. There's just some excellent songs on that album. Great songwriting & great music. That being said, I guess we're ... closenuf to the ending of this interview? I just want to ask, you've been doing music for how many years?

ANTHONY: 25.

AJ: You've put out 4 albums. You've done more shows than we can count.

ANTHONY: It's been a wild ride. It started when I was in college.

AJ: Just a punk kid with big dreams?

ANTHONY: It was actually, believe it or not, in 1977 when I heard Billy Joel's "The Stranger." I started singing it in the living room. It was amazing because I could sing just like him. I could sing the album from start to finish. I went to college for music. I have a music concentration from P.A.C.E. University in NYC. One of my professors called me in after one of the shows. I was singing American Bandstand, Bill Haley & all that. I was sat down & I thought I was in trouble, but she said, 'You got it, but what you have to do is you have to find your voice & you have to write. Write like a mad man.' That summer I just started writing songs. I picked some partners of mine to work on the progressions behind me & then you get addicted. You get addicted as an artist. It's just something that becomes inside of you that you have to be, you know. What it is, when you find out you're an artist it's like finding out you're gay. What I mean by that is that is you feel 'Okay, I'm unique. I may not be of the majority. I may get persecuted for who I am, but I'm gonna be the best person I am & I'm going to live my life honestly.' When you're an artist it is the way God made you. You are creative. You are overly emotional to the average aspect of things. You're more observant. You draw from different sources. You feel muses carried through you & you have to be who you are. But, of course, getting that little boost in the behind speech of 'you got what it takes, go for it, you're blessed,' that's something that changes every artists life.

AJ: Anthony, we're at the end. You & I have talked for the last hour. We've talk on e-mail & on the phone. It's always a pleasure.

ANTHONY: You, too, man.

AJ: I enjoy conversing with you because you really bring out the intellectual side of music & also the emotional side. It's not just good time & fun talk. You really bring out the seriousness of the music business, yet underneath all that you say there is this sense that you love what you do. It's not been your full time job & you're not a millionaire, but it doesn't matter because you love what you do. That is the feeling so obvious in what you say.

ANTHONY: I appreciate it.

AJ: This is the first interview I've done, so you're inaugurating something for me. It was obvious who was going to be my 1st guest, too.

ANTHONY: It's been an honor. You're quite thorough & you made it as painless as possible. Interviews can sometimes get a little hairy.

"She Was The Japanese Devil" An Interview With DAVE CRIGGER of FOGHAT, THE WORLD XXI

May 2018 (e-mail)

You likely haven't heard of rock bassist Dave Crigger, though he's considered an innovator of the slap & tap bass style which fused the famed R&B playing technique with the hard rock repertoire. His resume has included playing & touring with Wild Horses, The World XXI, progressive instrumental guitarist Michael Fath & the unsigned Broken Silence with Megadeth guitarist Jeff Young. He also toured with Foghat until 1993, when the original line-up would reunite for the 1st time since 1975. Foghat is today primarily known for their hit "Slow Ride", though at the time of their 1971 formation they were one of the few rock bands that used an electric slide guitar, something that was only found in blues bands. Crigger toured alongside founding member / drummer Roger Earl, long-term guitarist Erik Cartwright & vocalist Billy Davis, though he never recorded with the band. Today he performs locally in Virginia, while working as an electrician & raising his family.

For some years I've been working on /off on the 1st bio of the one-off 1996 industrial metal trio Vertex. Vertex is not so much known for its one CD or only single "One Like A Son", falling forgotten during grunge's musical make-over, but because it's line-up included famed vocalist Stephen Pearcy of Ratt & hot guitarist Al Pitrelli of numerous bands including Megadeth, Asia, Alice Cooper & Trans-Siberian Orchestra. The band was formed to boost the career of Japanese drummer Hiro Kuritani, though neither the band nor Hiro would go on to bigger things. It would be the only industrial metal outing for any member, thus having a unique place in their discographies. I've been a fan of Pitrelli for years & wanted to know more about this under-appreciated musical moment, something that got only a paragraph in Pearcy's autobio. Before Vertex Kuritani was in the prog-metal band The World XXI, named after the tarot card, & it was while with this band that he met Pearcy. In my research I listened to Pearcy's post-Ratt & pre-Vertex bands Arcade & Vicious Delite & hunted up The World XXI. Before ordering the album from Japan I found some youtube videos put up by Crigger, which led to finding him on facebook on a night when he was available to chat. This is an all too short interview, but we got too busy to continue with it. The fact I also briefly confused him with drummer David Crigger, known for playing with Burt Bacharach, likely didn't help.

* * *

DAVE: I will give you a brief history of THE WORLD XXI. I was in the band FOGHAT when I got the call in 1993 from Hiro & [guitarist] Mac's [Mizunuma] management to join their project. I flew to LA to meet & jam. Jean Violet, the singer, fly from NY to audition. We jammed about an hour & made plans to write songs in Japan. Jean & I went to Japan for about 6 months & rehearsed 15 or 16 songs that were mostly written by Mac & Hiro. We applied our parts & came out with what you hear [on our CD]. The idea was to have 2 Americans & 2 Japanese just killing some great prog-rock songs. We were put on a salary & worked full time at this project. Jean & I lived in a very small apt & hung together because we didn't know anyone.

AJ: When did you record the CD?

DAVE: We then went back to LA & recorded at American Studios [one of the 1st independent recording studios in California] with Bill Cooper. Everything was going great so far. After the CD was complete we did about 7 or 8 shows in Japan. We did some shows with BLUE MURDER. After those shows things were falling apart. Here's the real inside story. Everything the Japanese management company did was wrong. We were not getting air play. We were not getting paid. The first pressing of the CD didn't list Fender, Ibanez, Hipshot, SIT Strings or Ampeg on the credits, which I had endorsement contracts with. I was the only one established & already had 6 or 7 CD's out. These endorsements were required to be listed on anything I recorded. We then went home for a short break, but I wasn't getting paid, so I didn't go back. Jean did go back, but only for a short while. This is when Hiro joined with Stephen Pearcy.

AJ: What was it like working with Hiro?

DAVE: Hiro spoke a little English & Mac spoke no English. We had a translator when needed. Our manager was a lady named Yasumi. She was the Japanese Devil. Hiro & her were a pair. I mean, she was there for Hiro. Anything Hiro said she would do. Hiro had the least experience as a professional & that's why there were so many mistakes.

AJ: What did you & Jean do after the band was over?

DAVE: Jean went back to NY & started his LED ZEPPELIN tribute band [imitating Robert Plant in KASHMIR: THE ULTIMATE LED ZEPPELIN TRIBUTE]. I came back to VA & started my family with Rika. This is the best part. While we were rehearsing in Japan I needed money because they weren't paying us. I went to the studio & did session work for $300 a song. Rika was one of the singers that I did sessions for. She was a gorgeous Japanese teen idol that became a awesome singer. When I saw her after my session I fell in love . We now have 3 kids.

AJ: How do you feel about the music you made with Hiro & co.?

DAVE: I loved the band. I think the songs were just great. We would have been huge if the manager & Hiro hadn't controlled everything.

AJ: What's your music background?

DAVE: I started playing bass in high school. I was featured in Guitar Player mag in the Spotlight section. That's when I moved to LA. I was playing Sunset Strip with MOTLEY CRUE, RATT, WARRANT, POISON & all the '80's bands just before they all broke out. I was in a band called BROKEN SILENCE with [guitarist] Jeff Young of MEGADETH & one of the best singers in the world Mark Delpapa. We were managed by Barry Levine of KISS. But, just like most bands, things fall apart just as we were being signed. I came back home to VA 2 yrs later & started playing with another local hero [progressive rock guitarist] Michael Fath. We recorded & toured for 6 CD's as a 3 piece fusion instrumental band. We toured with several rock instrumental bands like Joe Satriani, Tony McAlpine, Eric Johnson & more. During this time I accepted some auditions with great bands like George Lynch, Lita Ford, [German metal band] KINGDOM COME & even METALLICA when Cliff Burton died. I didn't go for some of them because I was always touring in my own band. I did accept one band called WILD HORSES, a new heavy soulful band managed by Keith Olsen of DOKKEN. I was only in L.A. a couple weeks to record. That band just came to late. Grunge started getting popular & the money was tight. I went back home & recorded more with Fath.

AJ: When did you join FOGHAT?

DAVE: A couple years later I joined FOGHAT. I toured with them for 4 yrs & that's when THE WORLD XXI came about.

AJ: Dave, you have blown me away with your generosity of information. It's completely unexpected.

DAVE: Anytime & thanks for writing. I like reminiscing about the old days. Don't get me wrong on the negativity. I really did enjoy the few years with Hiro & Mac, but the business side crushed us all. I still talk to Jean about once or twice a month. He's attempting to sue the record company now, trying to get the money they didn't pay us. I let the dog lie comfortably, I wasn't doing it for the money.